what to wear under a speed ascent
December 18, 2009 03:33 PM
Hi Andy.
Just a quick question for you about the Speed Ascent. When you tested it in Scotland what did you layer it with and what was the weather like.Just trying to compare it with ME Pulsar jacket for Scottish winter use.
Love the DVD by the way-almost split my sides!!
Thanks
Simon
Hi Simon, I’ve been using the speed ascent for a long time (i think I’m on my 4th one), and have used various things under it.
As you probably know - the deal with a proper soft shell is that it has to conform to a sort of Inuit way of dressing; having one thick layer than can be stripped in an instant to dump heat (you can’t do this with a layering system). For this reason I tend to wear a very thin but windproof under layer(s), which I wear walking in, walking out, and put on my speed ascent when I stop, when it’s too cold for my base layer, or to look more nails. This way I stay cool and my jacket doesn’t get soaked with sweat on the way in.
In the early days I wore a shell polyester top underneath it (like the Marmott Driclime/Rab Vapourise). For some reason Patagonia no longer make this bit of kit (even though it’s one of the best designs out their for active users), and I swapped my old one for bed and lodgings in Patagonia.
These days I wear a R2 R1 Hoody and Houdini pertex top under the Speed Ascent. Reasons are I wear this set up for most of my winter training (running and biking), and know how to play around with it to match my heat output. The shell keeps out wind, snow and a short shower, and the R1 fleece has great breathability (due to grid), and wet warmth/dry time (better than most normal base layers). I can get away with just this on my top (no hat or gloves), on most approaches, using the hood, thumb loop sleeves (long enough to cover your hands), and big zipper to tailor my warmth.
When I’m climbing I’ll wear the hood up on the hoody under my helmet as it gives a better fit then a balaclava or a hat (I hate balaclava creep!). The Houdini top creates a slick layer that stops the R1 or pile binding as well. If things get worse I can also throw up my Houdini hood (I think Patagonia have - eh em - stopped making this desert island bit of kit, so buy a Montane Filament jacket instead).
As for comparing it to the Pulsar; having not used one, it’s hard to do a comparison; but the Speed Ascent is much closer to what I’d call a real softshell as it’s not a laminated shell (a hard/soft shell), having instead a stretch woven shell (very tough, weather resistant and fast drying/breathable), welded at key points to R2 pile liner (making it doubly breathable and faster drying as trad seams hold moisture badly). Bottom line it’s the best there is in my book (irrespective of who I work for).
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Comments
Andy,
I always enjoy reading your clothing system posts. The art of layering (or not) is an interesting topic. I’m surprised Patagonia isn’t making their Houdini next season? And what about the Alpine Windshirt? - I own both the Marmot Driclim and the Alpine Windshirt and find the Patagonia AWS to be a better product overall. Does Patagonia plan on selling a new wind shirt to replace the old Houdini?
Hi Kevin
Not sure why Patagonia don’t have it in the line (either in Europe or US), as it’s one of the most invaluable bits of kit they did (Marko Pretzli and Steve House think the same). The alpine windshirt has no hood, so it’s no use to climbers. Hard to second guess Patagonia, and they may have something in the pipeline, but I’d imagine not anough people bought it from them (others do cheaper windshirts in Europe).
Maybe like the R2 Hoody it needs a groundswell of interest to bring it back?
Andy
Andy, thanks for the reply.
Big bummer for sure. The clothing systems that both House and Cordes describe - published in Patagonia catalogs and online helped me drastically lesson the learning curve for clothing systems. I can’t emphasize just how helpful and beneficial the commentary Patagonia made available was to me. I hope they don’t abandon such remarkable products. I blogged about the Houdini/R1 Hoody system on my blog about a month ago and cited you and Cordes - Thanks again for your input and great blog.
Cheers, Kevin L in CO.
http://alpineambitionblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/both-andy-kirkpatrick-and-kelly-cordes.html
So is Buffalo no longer cutting the mustard?
The Buffalo still cuts the mustard, and it’s hard to compare the two, as the Speed Ascent is what you get if money’s no object, and so is more than twice the price. The only thing to do is try them both on.
Andy
Hi Andy,
How do they compare for size / fit. I have an old Mixmaster size medium which is tight and a newer Winter Guide jacket size large which is huge. Thus what size should i order? No local stockist so needs to be the internet.
Cheers,
Phillip
Andy - another good alternative to the houdini would be the current Marmot Ion windshirt. I wrote a review of one for UKC but it didn’t get put up for one reason or another. So anyway I put it up on my blog: http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2009/12/marmot-ion-windshirt-review.html
The Ion is cheap, light and breathable. Plus it has a hood.
Hi Phillip, size wise I think it’s maybe a touch bigger than the one I had last time (first gen mixed master), which was very close fitting.
Thanks Toby, good review.
Andy
great stuff, Andy. As for the Houdini and the R1 Hoody (not R2—ya made a typo, as there isn’t a hooded R2)—I’ve been told that neither of them are going away. Unless something changes, I know Patag plans to have the Houdini back (in Spring, I think). They just didn’t offer it for fall, for whatever reason. The R1 Hoody is staying around, too, last I heard. Cheers and keep up the great info!
Hi Andy, do you carry a hardshell in case of a downpour or weather the speed ascent can’t cope with?
hi Brigsy
if i was exspecting heavy rain then i’d probably go for a different set up, but for light rain and sleet i’m happy with the speed ascent. Soft shell is really a cold weather system, and a layering approach does work best when it’s warm and wet.
cheers
andy
Cheers, gearing up for a Winter Climbing course this year and planning kit. I take it then that it would be very unusual to get heavy rain in Scotland in Feb and the soft shell (Speed ascent)would normally suffice.(Potential stupid question, I know)
Hey Andy - Great Blog! Out of interest - if you’re using this system in Scotland what weight of belay jacket would you take. A full on DAS Parka type jacket or something a bit thinner. Just interested after Kelly Cordes recent writings on the subject.
Cheers,
Matt
Hi Matt
In scotland I’d probably always go with my DAS parka, as you could end up getting very wet, and be stood around a lot longer than ice climbing or alpine climbing. But then I’m a wimp.
cheers
andy
hi andy
i have been though a lot of softshells in the past. i am unfortunatly(tight arse) looking for a new one and wondered what would be better value for money speed ascent or ascensionist jacket it wold be used in both the alps in summer and winter plus Scotland
ascensionist would be much better for summer use than the speed ascent.